How Emotional Regulation Shapes Strong Leadership — Marcy Stoudt | Conversation

Jamey Maniscalco (00:04.856)
Marcy, thank you so much for being here today.

Marcy Stoudt (00:08.354)
So great to see you. Thank you, Jamie, for having me. Appreciate it.

Jamey Maniscalco (00:11.834)
I'd love to jump in with a question that I think about all the time What are the qualities that make a great leader?

Marcy Stoudt (00:21.902)
Jamie, you're starting off strong. I love that question because you really can look at leadership from different lenses. I always say that Revel is in the business of leadership. So I feel like all day long, I'm talking to leaders about how they lead. And I will say the one thing that is most important is that each leader is defined on who they want to be more often and being as authentic as possible, as consistently as possible. So while leadership may look great on one person,

Jamey Maniscalco (00:24.335)
Ha

Marcy Stoudt (00:51.682)
the second you try to be somebody else, your leadership weakens. So we always just try to teach leaders how to kind of look within and know who they are and then be that person as often as possible.

Jamey Maniscalco (01:03.098)
That's fantastic, authentic leadership. So what does that process look like? How do leaders figure out who they are authentically are as compared to what other people have told them for years, perhaps they should look like?

Marcy Stoudt (01:18.53)
Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like leadership is no destination. So who you are today is not going to be who you are, you know, in a year or five years or even tomorrow. So you have to because every scenario is different. So I feel like the best process is to kind of commit to a few different things. So I always love and I know we've had previous conversations about mindfulness and intention and things like that. But being really, you know, mindful around your vision, like who do you want to be as a leader and always defining that.

And you can define it as easily just like, what does great leadership look like for me today? Or for this person that I'm leading or this moment? But doing that on a regular basis, you really start creating like a personal vision statement that's flexible and appropriate for the moment that you're trying to live up to. And then when you have that clarity,

Jamey Maniscalco (02:03.844)
Hmm.

Marcy Stoudt (02:12.942)
The next second you're asking, well, what does that look like? How do other people experience my leadership? How do I want to make other people feel around me? you know, leadership is, it's a broad word, but really at the end of the day, leaders are leading people and people follow people. So if you're a strong leader, you got to know who you are and how you show up for others. And then with intention impact that person. So you're leaving a legacy with them.

Jamey Maniscalco (02:29.592)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (02:41.398)
and the other people around you are better because they were with you.

Jamey Maniscalco (02:47.748)
I love that and I love the other focus. It's not about you as the leader. It's about how you're impacting and elevating those around you.

Marcy Stoudt (02:54.318)
Yeah, yeah, completely. You know, it's funny because I feel like whenever we talk to leaders, you have two different things. You have your own story that's going on, and then you the other person's story that's going on. But at the end of the day, when you're in a business that you care about, and a mission that you care about, whether it's a small company or a billion dollar company, people want to help people succeed. And what happens is too often people only kind of see leadership through their lens, and they don't actually realize how their leadership is

perfect for one person and a total clash for the next. So the more senior you are as a leader, it's like staying authentic to who you are, but adjusting your language in a way that lands and resonates with the person that you're leading.

Jamey Maniscalco (03:27.067)
Mmm.

Jamey Maniscalco (03:37.978)
So thinking about this as a leadership, a dynamic and responsive capability based on who you're with.

Marcy Stoudt (03:45.998)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I read one of those books, this is a while ago, but when that book first came out, the five love languages, you know, and it's such a simple book. It's such a great I mean, it's really good for your personal it's about, you it's a marriage counselor that started it. And what he found with meeting with all these couples is they actually just were coming in speaking different languages. So one was speaking a language that sounded like, you know, just using his words, but like, access service is important. And then another one is like,

Jamey Maniscalco (03:52.579)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (04:00.825)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (04:15.244)
you know, quality time. And while they both want a great marriage, their lens of how they spoke about love was different in terms of expression in terms of reception. And I quickly kind of applied that into our business of when you're a leader, some leaders feel like if I'm really good at pushing you at 1 % better, like you got to be better, you could be better, think better, you know, elevate yourself and you kind of are always coaching them to the gap of who they are about to be.

Some people thrive on that. Well, the next person, their leadership language, it sounds like you're not enough. And the other person's hearing that you can do, you could be better. You can do one more, 1 % more. That person leaves the room uninspired, feeling like they're not enough. And they're like, am I ever going to please Marcy? Like I just, I I'm working so hard. She doesn't even see how hard I'm working. And so that's kind of like the love languages from, you know, the five love languages applying that from your leadership lens.

you start recognizing that diversity of thought and diversity of leadership is so valuable that you have to understand how to speak other people's language. And it's not being inauthentic if you adjust your style. It's like, you know, if I were to fly to France, it's polite for me to learn French. It's polite for me to speak their language. Even when I'm not good at it, you can then say it out loud. know, English is my first language. I'm trying here. Do you speak English?

But you can kind of have that language and that's that authentic level but still adapting your style in a way that you can really get the best out of the people around you because you want them to feel more confident, more capable, clearer about what they need to do and you really just want them to feel great around you. You want them to feel more inspired.

Jamey Maniscalco (05:59.579)
That is such a fascinating lens to this is really starting with other first and really understanding what is going to be inspiring, motivating and helpful to the other person rather than thinking, how can I, I, I be a good leader? What did it look like for you to cultivate that skill?

Marcy Stoudt (06:19.15)
Okay, well, maybe I'll go to the back to the beginning. I kind of was blessed. was with this company right from college. know you and I went to Denison together. Right after I graduated college, I joined this company and I stayed with him for 22 years and phenomenal culture. Everybody was it was a coaching culture where everybody was responsible for teaching and leading each other. It doesn't matter your tenure, your age or anything like that. And in most of my titles, every time I got promoted or I moved to New City, I always said like the ladies lot the room.

Jamey Maniscalco (06:26.03)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (06:47.918)
The bathrooms had a very small ladies line. I was always either the only female vice president or there's only a handful of women in the room at these conferences. And I learned pretty quickly my leadership language did not land on a of the guys that I worked for or worked with. And I had this one story that I always thank Nick Johnson for this experience. So we had this in the 90s, this tough love culture where trash can kicking.

got promoted, you know, like people like to use their profanities to make a point and things like that. And being the only female in the office, like I definitely have a softer voice. I have like, for a while I wasn't getting promoted because I was too nice. But I like being nice. I think that's a good characteristic of me. So, you in your early 20s, you get a little bit confused and I would try on different other styles and that really didn't land for me either. So I was struggling on my promotions for a while because I wasn't kind of...

creating my lane of what it took for me to be successful. And so finally, I just realized I'm like, okay, well, we're a sales based organization. If anybody in my world had record level sales, and because we were winning, we were just kind of a winning team, like we were the way our team was set up. So we were always trying to set the record, and we're figuring out how to do it. We're just doing our own way. And so we had this winning culture. It was awesome. We got promoted, things were going great. And then all of sudden, there's this one guy, Nick Johnson, and I'm gonna reach out to him to see if he...

um, listen to this, but he comes in and we hire him and he goes from zero to a hundred faster than anybody else. I he is on top of the world and a lot of it's because we just, we did it together. Like I was the boss, he was a recruiter. I was a salesperson. We just figured out how to grow the territory and we're setting records. But then one day he comes in and he's like, I don't know how to tell you this, Marcy, I'm going to switch. I'm putting in a formal request to switch out from working to you and I want to work to this other person. And the other person I looked down the hall and

he's like the trash can kicking leader that we always rolled our eyes out because I was always yelling and always kind of like, you gotta work harder, you gotta work harder. And I thought we were trying to lead in a way that we don't have to yell, we can get things done and Nick did great in that. And I'm like, I thought we didn't, I thought he didn't like his style. I thought he was kind of always like a little bit of a jerk to everybody. He's always like pushing everybody and I was trying to use that as an example. He's like.

Marcy Stoudt (09:12.424)
I know he's like, I mean, I did great with you. Could you imagine how much better I'd be if he'd kicked my ass every day? And it was at that moment, I just remember being like, stunted, because my lens of what works was working, but it could work even better if I just a little bit my leadership style to what that person I was leading worked for. So it was early on my career that I learned that and I just I've learned a knack in leadership, the sooner I can understand the

Jamey Maniscalco (09:18.009)
Wow.

Jamey Maniscalco (09:33.41)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (09:41.592)
drivers or the big why behind somebody and a Jap just a little bit not losing who I am but doing a way that is as clear as Nick coming to me of like man I like working for you and I've done great but if you kicked my ass every day I would be that much better I'm like noted and he did do great the other on the other team but

Jamey Maniscalco (10:01.634)
Yeah, and how did you respond in that moment to him? Was the insight immediate and you're immediately like, this is what I need to do? Or did it take some time for you to really digest that learning?

Marcy Stoudt (10:13.806)
All right, so it's like 30 years ago. I don't remember. I'd like to say when you're like 24, 25 years old, it's all instinctual. I remember at the time, like he and I were, you you, you know, we worked like around the clock at those days. So we were kind of in the trenches together and worked a lot. And I just, it was almost like a brother sister response. I don't think I dwelled on it too much, but I remember being like, huh.

Jamey Maniscalco (10:15.61)
Ha ha ha!

Marcy Stoudt (10:42.158)
So I look back at that moment. wasn't, yeah, it wasn't anything other than I need to start pushing people more. And I will credit that, you know, that adjustment got me out of like the first tier of promotions. Cause then I started getting promoters to run larger teams instead of like a team of five, I started running an office of 30 people. And you're just getting people really clear. Like you got to make sure you understand the why and the motivations behind your people.

Jamey Maniscalco (10:50.596)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (10:57.818)
Mm-hmm.

Marcy Stoudt (11:10.346)
and then use those as your ability to kind of break through and speak differently and understand them where some people, their lens to be successful, they like a lot of check-ins. You know, like, hey, how am I doing? And you're like, okay, here's feedback here. They like a feedback rich environment. And for somebody else, that looks like micromanagement. So you can't, it's not that I'm being inauthentic because I'm changing my style. I'm like, okay, you need a lot more.

attaboys and then you need to like hey results only you're gonna get fired if you don't hit this by this time like tell me if you need any help and that small adjustment allows the individual to be their best self and work well you know for you

Jamey Maniscalco (11:52.089)
Yeah, what does that process look like? I've got to imagine trial and error and more patience than you would like. But for you, what have you found? know, if I'm sitting here listening as an emerging leader and I want to develop this cognitive flexibility where I can really start to learn to work with all seven of the individuals who are reporting up to me on their terms in order to elevate each one of them based on their strengths, their interests, et cetera. What does that look like practically?

Marcy Stoudt (12:22.958)
it's 2026 right now. And if you're not leaning into the concept that AI is replacing inefficiencies, it's not replacing people. So I know at this point, early in 2026, everybody's bought into AI at different levels. But to fast track that, so as of a couple years ago, pre-AI, it took a lot of trial and error. It took a lot of questions, asking, goal setting, coffees.

Jamey Maniscalco (12:24.782)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (12:52.434)
observation, you know, that type of thing. But I do, I bought into a tool that is just, it's AI coaching and it uses the best personality assessments. And I always say like the personality assessments, you're kind of like Rubik's Cube, where like two people might be the same on disk, but totally different on Myers-Briggs or totally different on Enneagram. So you might be the same on one color, but your colors aren't even close on all the other sides.

So this AI tool that we use in our practice and we try to have the whole company as much as possible, get as many people on the tool because what I found in the coaching space, there was a big gap for me because I was 22 years in corporate America as a leader and I thought I was coaching all the time but there's a big difference when you're a leader and if they don't follow through you can fire them versus a coach where you have a great conversation two weeks later you're like.

How would she last two weeks? And you really have no context of what they're dealing with. So in my practice, people were telling me, legitimate, like I'd have a CEO and she'd be telling me what she was dealing with and maybe struggling with whatever the scenario was. And I was just taking her words for it, right? But now that we have this technology and we can have her team get on it, like get on the technology, we can pull up and change profiles.

Jamey Maniscalco (13:59.419)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (14:07.67)
And it is AI coaching. So it actually can work without a coach in the room. I love it for me because we can get deeper results. But you can kind of start seeing the diversity. So like the simplest example that I can give that I realized how this process works is I start we started rebel with like we want to like minded women who believes in da da. I still like that. I still like, you know, common, you know, focus groups or, you know, things like that. But

What I really, after I started getting this tool, like-minded teams stunt growth, because you're not actually thinking about other solutions, other ways, and your customers or partners, everybody is so different. So I quickly, once I started using this tool, it's called Cloverleaf. Didn't mean to leave the suspense.

Jamey Maniscalco (14:55.16)
Yeah. Yeah, Baited breath right here, Marcy.

Marcy Stoudt (15:00.026)
When I started using the tool, I started realizing like at a simple way. So my disc profile, which is a very simple one to explain is high I. So we believe in strong vision statements. We believe in getting clear on the why paint that picture, get the right people on the bus and with total enthusiasm and work ethic, we're going to get things done. And then my kind of frenemy, the C's, they are very compliant and a lot of people, they might be really strong and like

black and white. like really clear rules and instructions and their lens for success is if everything's detailed and there's playbooks and people know what they're supposed to do and we've done the research and the ROI and we know exactly what it is before people open up the door to go to their office, they know exactly what they're supposed to do and as a result, the team is clear. We all do our part and then we, you know, we're efficient and we get the job done. Both are trying to get the end result.

of growth, but those two clash so much. So for me, if I'm working with somebody and I'm kind of, Hey, we're going here. You know, I always like to kind of tell a story where, um, you know, if I'm driving the leadership bus and I give my big high energy, energy bus speech, I will pull the bus and with enthusiasm, I'd say, you know, 90 % of my team would get on the bus except for the seas. And they'd be asking very simple questions like,

Jamey Maniscalco (16:26.074)
you

Marcy Stoudt (16:28.546)
How far are going? Do we need to pack a lunch? What if, you do we have enough gas? They're asking very logical questions. And as the high driver of the bus, I am painting them as negative, stop asking questions. We don't actually know what's going to happen with AI in two years. Like you got to stop asking questions, get on the bus or not. Like I just get frustrated about their questions. But meanwhile, if I really, now that I've done this work enough, I'm like, my plan wasn't as good. So while I think their questions are negative and like question my authority,

they think my plan is incompetent and I haven't looked at all the data yet. You know, like I haven't done the black and white work. So what I, what I try to really teach, doesn't matter who you are. You got to find people that have strengths you don't have and then lean into those strengths as much as you can. So then that way, if I have to give this like high energy speech and get people on the bus, I would go to the seas first and I ask, all right, here's what I'm thinking. Here's the plan for 2026.

Jamey Maniscalco (17:02.81)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (17:22.426)
Mm.

Marcy Stoudt (17:25.462)
shoot me straight, what am I missing? What are you skeptical on? You know, their strength is that they're skeptical. My strength is that I'm optimistic. And by nature, those, they're frenemies. So if I bring them into the mix, I'm not defensive. And then when I have the bus and the 10 % is not getting on the board, I'll be like, Hey, Joe already asked those questions. Like talk to Joe, he'll give you the answers, but we're good. We're going to get on. And that's just how you kind of want to look at like a process of thinking, you know, your style is

Jamey Maniscalco (17:31.354)
Yeah.

Yes.

Jamey Maniscalco (17:47.139)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (17:53.63)
is awesome and that's gotten you a certain point but it's impossible for you to be as competent as everyone on your team because we all have different strengths.

Jamey Maniscalco (18:02.2)
Yes. I love that. the, frenemy is the perfect example. There is a tension between, you challenging me or are you elevating me? Are you improving? Are we synergizing versus detracting? It seems like as the high-eye leader and really the classic, I think leader, the big visionary, listen to me, I've got the vision, figure out how to make this work perhaps. There's a level of humility.

Marcy Stoudt (18:15.224)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (18:27.524)
that's needed to stop and to say, what do you think about this before I bring it to the bigger team? Have you found that that's been challenging to cultivate in your clients or in yourself?

Marcy Stoudt (18:27.726)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (18:37.1)
Yeah, so we have, that's a great question because really confidence and staying the course while being humble and vulnerable is equal parts to that, but they sound sometimes conflicting and that can get confusing for leaders. So for us, this is why in the beginning I talked about that vision work is if you know who you are as a leader more often.

And you're more often than not, you don't have to be perfect. Your actions kind of say, if somebody was watching you, they could describe probably what your vision statement is. Like who you are, who you want to be. They are experiencing that person. And it should be known.

because they're experiencing it. But the second doubt creeps in or fear creeps in or insecurity because say somebody's asking you questions, we believe in this language for us as the, you're either above center or below center. But when somebody kind of has, gives you negative, that your reaction to it is a negative emotion, under that we can react.

And in that reaction, it might look different for every person. Some people might yell, some people might get quiet. Some people might overwork. Some people might say it is what it is. But there are behaviors below center that is not irrelevant to your best self. And what happens in leadership is you create because of your behavior and your reaction, like not respecting the eyes and the C's, you get caught below center with that same person. Here we go again, Joe's complaining and Joe's like, here we go again. She's kind

Jamey Maniscalco (20:06.766)
Hmm

Marcy Stoudt (20:10.132)
these grandiose ideas with no real plan. So below center we kind of create this victim loop and the victim loop the only way to get out of it is to zoom out and then say hang on for a second.

I'm getting defensive. Why am I getting defensive? And there's definitely, you know, techniques and a lot of your techniques that you could probably teach the audience of how to get out of victim loops. Half of it is just your limiting thoughts. It's like between your own ears. But when you zoom out and you just do that simple work that we like to teach our clients to do every day is like, who do I want to be as a leader? Who do I want to be more often? What does that look like? And just keep journaling that out. You'll recognize when you're interacting with this one person that's put you in the victim loop. They're not seeing that person.

Jamey Maniscalco (20:29.178)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (20:52.804)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (20:52.898)
they're not seeing that thoughtful leader that cares about you. They're seeing that like combative defensive leader. And so you kind of be like, okay, what could I do differently? What are some of my leadership strengths? What are some things I'd like to do that's above center that I could apply with this person or I can apply on this subject to get out of the victim loop and go back to your vision loop. So that more often than not during the days, during the weeks, during the years, you're living from your best self and showing up as a leader that you know.

is the leader that you're proud of. And that's where leadership legacy comes from because that I always say you just want to be consistently boring, like consistent, not boring, you know, boringly consistent, consistently boring in terms of like, this is just who I am.

Jamey Maniscalco (21:34.351)
Yeah. Interesting. And so here, is, I mean, it's quite a lot of self-reflection and self-understanding. And those require moments of pause, moments of quiet, moments of calm. Is it challenging to get a lot of these high, you know, C-suite level executives who are used to going 100 miles an hour 24-7 to recognize the importance of stepping back and having quiet, reflective, contemplative time?

Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (22:06.734)
And part of where we started Revel was almost my own story. So I had been 22 years with a company and just all I knew was go. Like all I knew was 110%. And it wasn't to a point, there was a moment where I realized I needed to leave.

And that moment that I realized I needed to leave, I was below center, kind of, I wouldn't have recognized it at the time or didn't have the words for it at the time, but it was really in this victim loop. And this victim loop that I was in was real to me. And what I found out is by leaving the company and becoming a stay-home mom, I thought I hit the promised land by making that move. But what I did is I brought myself with me.

Jamey Maniscalco (22:37.23)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (22:47.982)
And so from the stay home lens, I would start finding my same, the same victim loop. Like the victim loop was as if there's two types of moms, a working mom and a stay home mom. And the loneliness was feeling like my limiting thoughts were that I didn't fit into either category well. And I just thought it was a choice. like, Oh no, where do I fit? So I'm at home with the kids, you know, basically, you know, living a great life here and, um, but still having that struggle. And so I really got.

strong on my meditation practice, my quietness practice and did the work and all of a sudden I realized I was like...

no, I saw my exact same story, the same story I had seen for 22 years. I kind of built up to this victim loop because I was the only female vice president. And how is this $3 billion company depending on one person as it became my women supporting women is my passion, but it became my burden. And that was I was putting my I was putting a false label, false narrative to my story. And once I break broke free from that, and I realized, wow, I just saw the countless times that people were going above and beyond to help me countless times of it

Jamey Maniscalco (23:33.082)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (23:39.364)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (23:55.445)
and things like that quiet time that I was allowed to have.

I recognized was what was missing when I was so busy and I was too busy to slow down to recognize I wasn't a victim. Like I was in a great spot. And we started revel in the premise of like, how do we get executives to realize you don't need to take a vacation to have a break. You don't need to kind of quit your job to find mindfulness. You can be your best self today. Now, like even with some of our, some of our, you know, my clients are always that time-starved working mom, you know, and they kind

Jamey Maniscalco (24:09.433)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (24:29.369)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (24:30.672)
And I'd love to hear your reaction to this too. They always say, I can't quiet my mind. My mind's too busy. Like I just don't know how to quiet your mind. And my similar response is like, how long have you been practicing that statement? Because words matter. You believe whatever you tell yourself. And so they believe they can't quiet their mind. eventually I can teach people, is that true? Can you quiet your mind enough to reflect and tap into better intuition and tap into like,

Jamey Maniscalco (24:46.702)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (24:59.654)
When you do tap into your, when you're tapping into your pure, the most pure state of who you are, words come clear, solutions come clear, what seems so wrong, you're like, hmm.

maybe there's another thing or maybe there's a better question to ask. And with that zoom out reflection, you go into the same meeting you were going to go to and instead of just being rushed and then the meeting doesn't go well and then you end the meeting with a, all right, well, it looks like we're gonna have to schedule another meeting.

Jamey Maniscalco (25:32.356)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (25:32.864)
It changes. You have a better question, you have a better closure, you have more attention to like the time. And then maybe at the 30 minute mark, 45 minute mark, like, think we've figured out what we need to do next. And that's all leadership. So without that quiet time, and without that, know, finding that time, we just don't allow our brains to work well. But I would like to ask you, like, how do you work with clients and helping them with this, you know, kind of epidemic in America that we're just so busy with back to back?

Jamey Maniscalco (25:44.44)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (25:54.713)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (26:02.094)
calls and emails.

Jamey Maniscalco (26:02.35)
Yeah. it is. It's so challenging. And I feel it just this early because I feel it too. You know, we are not exempt even though we're trying to help others. It's, because we're working through it ourselves. There's so much there. And I think to me, a lot of it comes back to a fundamental core, which is growth mindset versus fixed mindset.

And this concept is, you know, as we become adults, we inherently start believing in a fixed mindset. Like you were saying, I can't quiet my mind down. I'm just a busy person. And you say it to yourself, so you have this self-referential internal dialogue that reinforces this. And we realize when we're saying things like this, usually pretty negatively, because we're much meaner to ourselves than anybody else would ever be to us. We reinforce this in such a negative fixed mindset way where you feel victimized. I can't change. This is who I am.

and there's nothing to be done and it's always going to harm me. And this pause and this shift to a growth mindset of, I'm not good at that yet. And for me, it's bringing the word yet in. And when people come in and they say, I can't calm down, I can't meditate, I can't have a quiet mind, I'm just this type of person, you know, a lot of times the questions I'll ask are, what have you done to work towards it?

And a lot of people when it comes to these cognitive mental capacities, they try for 30 seconds and when it's not easy, they stop. And an analogy, like a visceral kind of embodied analogy often comes to me is I like to think of a sport. Like, could you shoot a hockey puck from mid-ice into a goal? And for a lot of people who don't play hockey, no, there's no chance. Well, what would you do to get better at that? If that was the goal, if you really wanted to be better at that?

Could you get better at that? yeah, of course. I'd spend all weekend on the ice. I'd keep practicing. I'm I'd be better in a few weeks. Well, let's apply that same framework to patience, to taking a deep breath. It's all about, like you were highlighting, finding small moments to practice. And I think what a lot of people misunderstand is they try to practice these in the big moments. Okay, this meeting isn't going well. It's getting derailed. I'm freaking out. Now I need to figure out how to calm myself down.

Jamey Maniscalco (28:18.874)
Well, that's a terrible time to practice. What you need to do is need to practice ahead of time so your habitual response is...

Marcy Stoudt (28:21.326)
you

Jamey Maniscalco (28:30.042)
Okay, I've learned that when I get stressed I take a deep breath and that always helps me but you can't practice in crisis you have to practice in calm and So here those two frameworks or those three frameworks coming together Generally help people start to read re-envision what it looks like to build What they think are character traits? Build them and seeing them as skills

Marcy Stoudt (28:56.27)
That's amazing. I love that. mean, there's so many nuggets you just gave. Like the word yet is definitely one of the most powerful because it just diffuses any I can't. And that that's just something you can lean on and apply almost for everything. And, know, it's interesting. was thinking about you talking about learning skills. If any of the listeners are parents, like we tell our kids they can do anything, you know, you're like, hey, take an AP class. I know you're only in like 10th grade, but take a college level course or try out for the play or try out for the ice hockey team. And then we do whatever.

Ken, like we'll give them private coaches or we'll give them tutors. We'll do all these things for them. And I am confident as a parent, I never want my kid to feel an expiration date that they can do anything at any time. And they always have the resource because they're always with them. They can always figure it out. And as adults, when did we put the expiration date on us? that we all of a sudden now we're fixed. And I think that word yet is like that's gold.

Jamey Maniscalco (29:51.085)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (29:56.251)
100 % and honestly for me personally, you know, as you know, I'm in the process of building a new business I've left a career in academia to really branch out in what is very related but so different and the Empowerment that comes along with the word yet That is, you know, the word yet to me represents the hope aspect of it

And then we're in an information age where you can figure out a lot of things very quickly and very coherently using AI tools in a way that is intelligent and not kind of usurping our ability to think. Using AI to brainstorm, to problem solve, using Google, whatever it might look like, the information is there. How can I create a business on my own with no business experience is an answerable problem in this day and age. And here it has been integral.

in a mindset framework change for me, the I can't or this is too much or I'm too old to if somebody else can do it, why couldn't I? Of course I can. I have access to the information. I'm smart. I'm motivated. I could do anything anybody else could do. It just might take me longer. I might have to take a different path.

But if you're having fun along the way and you're enjoying it, to me that's where this empowerment comes from is I love what I'm doing, I feel capable of doing it, and I know I have the tools and resources around me to solve any of these problems.

Marcy Stoudt (31:21.42)
Yeah, that's so true. And the word fun to me is so important. Like the word revel basically means, you know, to enjoy oneself in any given moment, like to really revel in the moment. And when we were starting our business, it started with this mindful moment of breaking down barriers of your own limited mindset. But it was based on the word revel, which is finding joy. So now with technology and the AI, you really can teach yourself to do anything you can follow like

Jamey Maniscalco (31:28.269)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (31:50.03)
I used to be really bad at technology. And now I have this great AI that walks me through step by step. just take pictures. I'm like, still not seeing the button that you're talking about. But you can empower yourself to do anything. But what you want to do now, because you can do anything, you only want to stay in the place that feels fun. Because I feel like energy is contagious. And when you're having fun, it doesn't feel like work. It genuinely just...

It's like movement, it's progress, it's winning. It's that, you know, when there's positive energy in the air that you feel is positive, because whatever it looks like, that's when success comes. So as everybody has access to the same information, the real winners that are going to come out of this are going to recognize that AI is going to replace inefficiencies. You can outsource the things you don't like, the red energy drainers, so you're spending more time doing things that feel fun.

Jamey Maniscalco (32:44.122)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (32:44.288)
And then, you know, like I, we just hired an AI consultant on our team and he says, and he's great. Like he's done all this stuff with our company and trying to help us with our AI strategy. And he's like, AI is supposed to be fun. He's like, you know what, when you press submit and sometimes it takes a little bit for it to think, I just dance. And he's, he's talking about dance and he's like, you should have fun with it. You should never be yelling at your chat. Like,

Jamey Maniscalco (33:00.538)
Right.

Marcy Stoudt (33:06.22)
that is an opportunity that they are doing mountains of work for you. And they've just condensed your work stream by two weeks because you pressed return so you can dance. And so there's little things like that. think my mindfulness to me is like it's where the game is. You know, and the one thing I've started doing with my clients that I love this because it's

We are back to back. Like you are no longer scheduling a meet like before I'd schedule a meeting at two and if it ended at three, I would never schedule a meeting at three because I have to walk down the hall or sometimes you have to walk to another building. You know what mean? Like now it's just log in, log in. So I was trying to end all my meetings at, you know, 2.50 or 3.50, but that didn't work because everybody still goes to the hour. Like intellectually we can't unseed. We still have the time left. So I start all my meetings at 05.

Jamey Maniscalco (33:37.252)
Yeah.

Yeah, you're like, we're gonna. Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (33:57.932)
And it's amazing because even like people still show up early. you know, like they show up early, but in those five minutes, if they just take a couple minutes to kind of write like, Hey, what do I want out of this or what's important or how do I want to show up today? It takes like seconds. for that busy, you know, that, that busy person that doesn't know how to quiet their mind, they certainly know how to write goals. They certainly know how to write a good agenda. They certainly know how to have like business outcomes and just five minutes.

of mindfulness in that style could work for them. So that way that 55 minute meeting is impactful. And that's like one really easy technique to apply and getting, you know, people started on the path like busy is a choice. Stress is a choice. And it's your choice to stay in that as long as possible. And that's like, I think one of the biggest victim loops that we're in is being so busy and it can be so easy. It looks like this. It's like, how's your day? Oh, busy.

Jamey Maniscalco (34:35.204)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (34:51.374)
Hmm. Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (34:57.679)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (34:59.013)
And what do people do with that? They're like, oh my God, I'm busy too. And then we're complaining, right? And now all of a sudden we're all in this victim loop about being so busy. And then we're starting complaining about all the reasons. And you just filibustered half of the meeting relating with friends are busy. you know, if you're in the stay home, you know, the working mom, stay home mom world. If I were to respond that I'm so busy to my stay home friend moms, you know they're going to do? Oh, we shouldn't invite her. She's so busy. Right.

Jamey Maniscalco (35:04.526)
Mm-hmm.

Jamey Maniscalco (35:18.65)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (35:26.816)
Mm-hmm. We don't want to burden her.

Marcy Stoudt (35:28.402)
I'm busy because I like it. I'm choosing it. I love what I'm doing. so that busy thing, I try to tell a lot of people like, get that, no, busy is your choice. No stress is your choice. And when you want to choose to look at it in a different way, that's a choice. But I'll say the easiest way to kind of get out of that because everyone's always late. know, like busy people are late. And then they start all the meetings with sorry, sorry, I'm late. And then again, start complaining about traffic. And then everybody complains about traffic and all

Jamey Maniscalco (35:31.481)
Yes.

Jamey Maniscalco (35:50.404)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (35:58.238)
and we have negative energy. you try not to say sorry in business unless you really screwed up, know, like own it. But if you're late, you want to say you want to replace it with something that's like you got high energy, low energy, like one statement makes you feel good. One statement makes you feel like crap. Sorry, I'm late. I wasted your time. The traffic was bad. Makes everyone feel like crap, right? You're not crap. But like if you start the meeting with

Jamey Maniscalco (35:59.748)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (36:25.548)
Hey, thank you for waiting. There's nothing more important than this time together. I'm so excited. Looks like we only have 40 minutes now. Let's get started. Feels great. Let's go. And that's there's little mindfulness techniques that work for leaders that aren't always just quiet in your minds, quiet in your thoughts, but generally shifting how you show up in a way that reflects.

Jamey Maniscalco (36:34.138)
Yeah. Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (36:51.394)
who you want to be more often in a way that feels really authentic to you because it works for you. And that's kind of the fun game about coaching is you're just always trying to figure out like, okay, what's this person's style? Like what's going to work for them? And, you know, helping them be their best leader.

Jamey Maniscalco (36:53.21)
Mm-hmm.

Jamey Maniscalco (37:03.588)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (37:07.748)
And so what's the short term and the long term difference in the leader who embraces hard work with joy versus the leader that frames it as a grind and the harder and more miserable you, the harder you work and the more miserable you are, the more successful you must be? That kind of like old stereotype. What are the differences between those two leaders over the course of months to years?

Marcy Stoudt (37:35.214)
So it's almost so obvious. I don't know if I want to answer that question. I used to manage a lot of offices. So I'd managed, it was like 19 offices that I managed. And I used to go into an office, because if I would take over like a new region, I could go into an office before I actually had a good conversation with the director of that office. And I could see the personality of the leader. Like it was almost like a little game for me. So when I'd go in and everyone's like stressed out, look tired, you know, I'm like,

I think this is a stressed out leader. If I go in and like the footballs were flying and they're laughing and they're you the bells ringing I'm like this looks like a high performing team that's having a lot of fun and the personality of that leader came out in the people they were leading. So you know in your question it really is if you are miserable as a leader no one wants your job.

Jamey Maniscalco (38:21.327)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (38:29.772)
And you know what that means? People that are addicted to you in that job, which means you can't get out of that job. And if your job is a leader to elevate others, but if they don't want your job because you're not motivating them, there are a lot of things that are going wrong. But the biggest one is that you are always going to be in the middle of the room of all the decisions. And that's not giving your team a service because you don't have enough time and you're going to burn yourself out. So.

Jamey Maniscalco (38:29.892)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (38:48.634)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (38:52.942)
One has probably mediocre results, a lot of stress, a lot of stressed out people around them, and probably a lot more work on their plate than the other one that has a team that's jiving, thriving, respecting each other's differences. You know, have a lot more time to actually lead. Because leadership isn't like the micromanagement stuff, like, me see your reports. Who have you met with?

Jamey Maniscalco (39:04.506)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (39:17.644)
Leadership really is like slowing down to talk to somebody and saying, how are you? You know, what's going on? And, and, understanding their full self. So you can always get their, their full self to the table and making sure that they're prioritizing the main thing, which shouldn't always be work.

Jamey Maniscalco (39:24.174)
You know.

Jamey Maniscalco (39:28.623)
Mm-hmm.

Jamey Maniscalco (39:36.89)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (39:37.134)
And the results of work should kind of fuel the main thing, but it's everything. So great leaders know how to slow down to really make sure, you know, we're getting the best out of the people. And I always say like with most people, you we were very, like long term, a of our employees are long term and I love watching them now. It's like 35 years with this company. Like they're really, it's a great company. And, but I always used to say, I'm like, whether you're working for me on my team for...

Jamey Maniscalco (39:57.902)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (40:06.03)
20 years or 20 days, I want you to say those were the best 20 years or 20 days.

Jamey Maniscalco (40:12.558)
Yeah. And that is a fantastic, I think the vision is stellar. And I think, I'm sure most leaders that you work with want that vision. They want the joy, they want the relaxed environment, they want the environment where everyone's doing their best because they're in the right role, capable of thriving. And they as the leader have developed that type of culture.

What would you or what do you do with the leaders who want that vision but are stuck? They're stuck in their victim cycle. They're stuck in their negative mindset. How do you help them cultivate joy, cultivate the relaxation, cultivate the elevation that they need to bring to their office space, to the ones that they're working with?

Marcy Stoudt (40:59.34)
I think it really goes back to the same principle your first question is just helping them to be.

really clear on who they are and then being authentic about who they are in a way that they're very confident and proud about it. So the struggling leader that's stressed and overwhelmed usually have an inferiority complex or they have for some reason they they're just not feeling their best selves and it tends to be when I ask them for their vision statement it sounds like a little bit of this person a little bit of that person a little bit and eventually if your vision statement

is inspiring and personalized, it actually guides you to do the right decisions. Like you can do hard things when you have the right vision statement. But if it doesn't have depth and it's just kind of like, you just Googled it or you just kind of threw it out there and it's just a generic, if it doesn't give you goosebumps, are, there's a gap. Like your belief that it's possible is weak. And because of that gap, you're going to stay below in a victim loop.

Jamey Maniscalco (41:58.274)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (42:02.754)
You know, I just, you know, it's hard. And so with my clients, I try to really help them be proud of who they are because they don't get into a role that, by the time that they're hiring an executive coach, they're, they're in a role because they're, they are very talented. And sometimes you just lose sight of that and you lose sight from that because you're too busy or too stressed. You've heard too much feedback, whatever it may be. It could be your board has an opinion of you because of your quarterly performance.

Jamey Maniscalco (42:05.369)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (42:09.922)
Mmm.

Jamey Maniscalco (42:17.103)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (42:29.231)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (42:31.576)
But that's just like, that's the lagging indicator. You the lead indicator is you as a leader getting yourself out of there. So that's really the process I go through is making sure that it's custom exactly for them and then where there are deficits. So if you have a leader that's not doing great performance, but they're also terrible at numbers and they fake that they're good at numbers, you know, cause they have to be like answering to the board. I'm like, well, who's your contact? It doesn't matter. You gotta bring a consultant or somebody into the mix for that gap. And you don't have to be the hero in every situation.

Jamey Maniscalco (42:34.756)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (42:56.974)
Mm-hmm.

Marcy Stoudt (43:01.52)
your company needs to be the hero. And there's a lot of people that represent your company. So those are the types of things that I like doing with leaders.

Jamey Maniscalco (43:11.45)
I love that it reminds me of a quote that I had heard once I'm gonna botch it but I'll get the the general theme is You know when you look out and you know these people who are trying to create visions based on pieces of other people their inspiration That's a great place to start, you know what inspires you about each of these people but the the quote was something like You're never gonna beat someone else at being them if you're trying to be somebody else They're always gonna be one step ahead by definition

Whereas no one will ever beat you at being you. If you want to be the best, you need to be yourself because nobody else can replicate who you are. No one's had your experiences. No one has your personality, your sense of humor. If you are authentically you, you're going to be the best at being authentically you rather than trying to copy somebody else. Yeah, I love that. So how has leadership changed?

Marcy Stoudt (44:00.728)
So good, so good.

Jamey Maniscalco (44:08.826)
As we enter in an entirely new era, we've got AI tools, we're working more remotely, but perhaps being pulled more into the office kind of as the post pandemic stuff is shifting. What do you see as different in leadership today in 26 versus say 20 years ago or 30 years ago?

Marcy Stoudt (44:25.826)
I'm gonna give my answer, but I'm a little biased because I have this the working moms journey is kind of in the back story of my whole career and everything. I think what the biggest thing that changes is that everybody wants everybody to be great parents. know, like they actually I think old school leadership was this is our process. This is the IBM way and you need to dress like us, look like us, sound like us and

Jamey Maniscalco (44:35.162)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (44:53.132)
we are hierarchy, you know? And now I feel like most people want to have an impact, like most organizations.

they really actually have vision statements that they care about their people. Like the employee experience is very important for them. And what that means is like, they want the employee to have a great experience so they have a great family, a great life and things like that. So I felt like I was, you know, kind of carrying that working mom's torch, like being the only female vice president for so many years. I went through my first, second and third maternity leaves as the only female vice president. So that's like, we're making it up as we go along. And what I realized with my, you know, my big why and I started Revel,

I'm like we have an obligation. There's no better time than now to be successful in corporate America as a woman like it really is You know this the soft skills that are natural and feminine energy are the ones that are raved about like being vulnerable and you know the EQ and things like that and So what I when we started revel I always realized like we have an obligation to pave the way because it's not just the mom who wants to be home in time of the child's You dress rehearsal or volunteer in the classroom. Dad's wanted to coach teachers

Jamey Maniscalco (45:50.488)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (46:04.304)
T-Balls. Dads want to be involved. And I think what's changed in leadership is people want to work for people they believe, they trust, they know. And because of this social media world of doing like interviews like this, they actually want to work for people they believe in and they can relate to. And so so much humanity is in leadership and people wear it on their sleeves because it's actually an expectation for leaders to not shut the door on their family and now be the

Jamey Maniscalco (46:06.552)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (46:34.234)
CEO, it's kind of blended. so to me, think the biggest difference is companies, I don't know if I'm answering the question specifically enough, but leadership itself is like,

It's bigger than the earnings as a leader. Like your job isn't just about the one about driving the results. It's the full person and the full experience. And when somebody gets sick, everybody cares, you know, everybody wants to be there. Like that is actually in the teams that do the best are the ones that care about the whole person. And when the person's well, everyone's great. And when the person's not well, like we got your back, you know, and that to me is what I love.

Jamey Maniscalco (46:58.937)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (47:04.185)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (47:11.076)
Yes.

Jamey Maniscalco (47:15.384)
Yeah.

And that boosts productivity as a byproduct. know, the emotional health. You know, when people are happy and they're healthy at work, they're getting more done anyway. It's not just ours. So this is an interesting theme. And it's been consistent throughout the entire conversation is there's a lot of self-care. There's a lot of self-regulation involved in leadership in a way that, you know, we're in this transitional period.

Marcy Stoudt (47:27.917)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (47:43.087)
which is the hardest period to embrace kind of what is looking like the new norm because you have to be on the cutting edge, the bleeding edge, not fitting with historical norms of if you're the CEO, you're working 24 seven, you'll make big bucks, but you're never gonna see your family. You're not gonna take a vacation until you retire. That's the kind of standard expectation. But now we're pivoting into no, if you wanna be the best leader, you need to be emulating what you want others to be seeing. You need to be self caring. You need to do all these things.

What are some of the things that you've seen with those that you've coached or yourself that have made the most impact in terms of self-care, health, wellness for people in executive positions?

Marcy Stoudt (48:24.366)
That's an interesting question. My stance is those that have the most amount of harmony, which is the new word being replaced with balance, is they figure out how to be happy today, now. So I know that there's times that, yeah, like a lot of CEOs still work 60 hours, they still miss a lot of things, they still travel, they still relocate, you still do the same things we were doing 20 years ago, but more often than not, they find the moments that matter.

so they can feel like there's no regrets. There's too much news out there about the business value of being present and enjoying what you're doing and things like that. I think that's really it. It's a lifestyle.

Jamey Maniscalco (48:56.441)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (49:14.009)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (49:14.752)
And it's honoring it. So an example of me saying like stress is a choice, legitimately stress is a choice because it's just how you look at it. You look at your world as hard and then as a result, it feels hard and then it feels heavy and then you don't sleep and then you complain and then it kind of goes down the path. Right. Or you look at stress as you're like. OK, well.

Jamey Maniscalco (49:19.876)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (49:30.936)
Mm-hmm

Marcy Stoudt (49:35.628)
I got a lot on my plate, but I'm choosing this job. I'm choosing this team. I'm choosing this client. And you know what? I'm choosing to travel the next week. And I'm so sorry to my kids that I'm going to miss this. But in the scheme of things, I'm so excited about this client. Here's why it's important to me. But if you can be absolutely confident that you're making the right choice, it's the same scenario. It's just your mindset around it. So you know the favorite quote, but when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.

Jamey Maniscalco (49:51.919)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (50:02.798)
Yes.

Marcy Stoudt (50:03.104)
And to me, your scenario doesn't have to change. How you think about it has to change. And that's why I love like the practices that you teach are so easy because if you bring, you know, stress is contagious. I would say time is finite, energy is renewable, renewal. But if you looked at energy like a gift and as a leader, you just wrote down in that five minutes before your meeting, what is the gift you want to give the team? And if the gift you want to give the team is a stressed out, scattered,

Jamey Maniscalco (50:16.271)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (50:21.966)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (50:27.448)
Hmm

Marcy Stoudt (50:32.558)
meeting that made no sense that now you have to have another meeting about it. Okay. was a weird choice. But if your gift is like, I want this team to believe that they're the team to figure it out. I want them to know we're in a bad situation. We didn't hit our quarter finals, but we're the team to figure it out. I want them to know I believe in them. And if that's your five minute journal, you show up that way. And that's, that's like stress fueling your purpose and helping you bring clarity.

Jamey Maniscalco (50:36.954)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (50:49.754)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (50:58.592)
It's not the stress stressing them out. So the gift you're giving them is belief, not an impossible task.

Jamey Maniscalco (51:02.852)
Yes. And you're demonstrating a healthy relationship with stress.

when you come in as the leader and you say, know this deadline's approaching, this got botched, or they're asking more than we anticipated, it's not fair for us, as opposed to putting everyone kind of below center, I suppose, as would fit with your analogy, elevating and saying, this is an opportunity to shine. The stress you're feeling right now is gonna give you the energy to get this done. I know it's gonna be a late night, we might have to work all night tonight, whatever, that's tough, but what we're gonna be able to achieve in the stress that comes along with it.

It's fantastic. for me, I'm a science-y guy. I believe in data and literature and evidence. And what's so cool about some of these things is what you see is the mindset shift. And if you can embrace that yourself and give it to others as that gift, actually makes the difference. And stress is a perfect example. Because what we see is, in some really impactful literature, we see that people who are high stress and see stress as negative,

have really high mortality rates as compared to people who report that they don't have much stress. But what is cool is those that report having high stress, but it's not seen as a negative, it's actually seen as a benefit, stress brings me meaning, stress brings me purpose. I'm so happy that I'm stressed because it means I care about something in my life is purposeful. Those people actually have the lowest mortality risk of all, even lower than those who don't have any stress.

So not having stress is a health risk factor.

Marcy Stoudt (52:39.918)
you

Okay, so I'm going to change this. I'm going to flip the interview and ask you for some advice. I always struggle on how to articulate this. But when I was like my corporate America running the you know, I had like 300 people working for me like I had a lot of stress and I was going on maternity leave. So I was doing things and I kind of pictured it like if somebody runs like a 10k when you have the numbers on you and everyone's cheering for you, you've been playing on it like you can run a 10k and it just feels great. Like you kind of get that runner's high. When I left work, so my excuse, my limit

Jamey Maniscalco (52:44.683)
Jamey Maniscalco (53:07.61)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (53:10.73)
mine is I would say well if I didn't work

I could do all these great things at home. I'd be a better mom. And then when I was thinking about, you know, comparing myself to my peers at Stay Home Wives, I'd be like, well, if I didn't have kids, I would be able to volunteer for this. Like I had this limiting mindset, which is wrong. But then when I got home, it was awesome for like the first like six months, I just felt like I was on one long vacation. But what started to fade is I didn't feel like I felt like I was running the 5k, but I didn't have the numbers. I didn't have the like, I think what you just said is the stress. And it wasn't like I lost my sense of self because my

Jamey Maniscalco (53:18.106)
Mm.

Jamey Maniscalco (53:43.278)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (53:45.728)
purpose statement, I keep diaries all the time, actually seems very similar than now. So I never really changed, but all of a sudden I found myself like, what's my purpose? was trying, I was just confused about my purpose. And what I recognize is that I needed the, I needed to work. So I'm working again, I'm working more hours probably than before, but I love it so much. So in that moment,

Jamey Maniscalco (53:48.729)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (54:11.694)
I don't know how to describe it, but I feel like you just gave me an answer, like the psychological thing of like, I didn't have the stress, so I was not as satisfied. But then if I had the conversation, people were like, well, who would choose more stress?

Jamey Maniscalco (54:26.094)
Yeah, no, I think this is a perfect example. You I think you find purpose and meaning in your career. It's not exclusive. It's not that you only find purpose and meaning in your career. It's critical to have purpose and meaning at home for you as well. But that purpose and meaning, it's not that we need stress in and of itself, in my perspective. It is that stress comes along with purpose and meaning.

When, you know, I have a mantra that I often say that gets me off the ledge when I'm super stressed. It's, stress because I care. I stress because I care. I get so frustrated when my daughter won't eat healthy things and is just trying to sneak snacks and all this she's ate. So it's very appropriate. And I say, why am I so frustrated by this? She's acting as she should. Like, you need to be the adult. Why is this so hard? And I stop and I say, I'm so frustrated and stressed only because I care. If I didn't care about her,

then I'd be carefree, I'd be relaxed. Eat whatever you want. Do your homework, don't do your homework. Go to bed, don't go to bed. That is what lack of stress looks like. And that is not what I want because I have a purposeful, meaningful relationship with her. And so think with you, this is the exact same thing. You left work, right? You left work and you lost a lot of what gave your life meaning and purpose and you became a worse version of yourself.

Marcy Stoudt (55:34.36)
So glad I asked.

Jamey Maniscalco (55:45.593)
because you didn't have that. And what I would argue is you go back to work and you're feeling like I'm not with my kids as much, is that bad? But what I would say is you've reframed that into, you're your better self at home because you get to do what brings you meaning from a career perspective. Plus, your kids get to see the role model of a high-powered, successful working woman, working mother, working parent.

And not only is that giving them a good role model, but it's demonstrating to them how do you balance these two things. And so to me, that's a perfect example.

Marcy Stoudt (56:21.713)
Yeah, well, and then I learned so much through the process. So like, I quit my job or my career over one sentence. And then I found myself six months into starting revel saying that sentence. And when I said it out loud, I'd say never again. And that was like a mindset shift on how I was looking about something. So you want to know what? Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (56:29.316)
Really?

Jamey Maniscalco (56:44.184)
What was the sentence? Yeah, my gosh, that's all I can think about.

Marcy Stoudt (56:48.544)
Mommy needs one more minute.

Because I was like a victim to everybody else's calendar. And when I had the limited mindset, I had stress, but I was like, mommy needs one more minute, because it was a boss, it was a client, it was something else. People were pulling at me all the time. And that was my sloppiness of my schedule, my clarity with meetings of like, I don't know, I don't think I need to be at that meeting. I don't think I need to fly to Minneapolis this time.

Jamey Maniscalco (56:52.088)
Yes.

Marcy Stoudt (57:15.672)
But I didn't have that mindset then. I kind of had this corporate mindset if I had to do what I was told. I was a leader of it, so I'm exaggerating a little bit. But at the same time, I thought that was the system I was in, I needed to do that. So I felt like a victim to everybody else's demands.

And then here I am starting my own business, know, and when you, you know, when you first start your entrepreneur world, it's a little messy, you know, you're doing a lot of things. You're not sure exactly what's landing and certainly not making as much money as you did in corporate America. So my daughter beatbox home from school. She jumps into my office and I said it to her cause I was in the middle of something, you know, and I pause and I just remember like she leaves, like she kind of gives me that cute little look. And then I remember looking at my finger, like kind of like this. was like,

Jamey Maniscalco (57:41.262)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (57:46.81)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (57:53.277)
We out.

Marcy Stoudt (58:03.406)
Never again. Never again. And that's when I started the thing of saying thank you. I'd say things like, she'd come in, I'm like, oh, thank you so much for coming in and being excited to talk to me. What I'm doing right now, I'm like midstream and I start over again, it's probably gonna take me an extra hour. So I can either finish this now, we'll talk later or, you know, I'd say like, nothing's more important than you. Do wanna tell me now? They're like, no, I just wanna tell you that. And she'd like name something silly from the playground. And I'm like, oh, anything else? She's like, no, that's it.

Jamey Maniscalco (58:08.418)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (58:28.378)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (58:32.482)
And then she'd leave. So I wouldn't have to be like, was dissing, I accidentally, my victim loop was dissing the most important thing to me. But when I had clarity and I saw that, like, you know, the saying, like, you bring you with you. So how you handle relationships, how you handle jobs, how you handle deadlines, it doesn't matter. Big company, small company, self-employed, all that stuff. You're the same person. You just have to be a better leader for you.

Jamey Maniscalco (58:41.626)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (58:46.948)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (59:01.261)
Yes.

Marcy Stoudt (59:01.376)
and know what you want and make sure the main thing feels great around you. And that was that mindset shift that I made when I started Revel that I was like, okay. And then I started saying to myself, you know what? There's nothing better than their kids see their moms swing for the fences and know that at any moment, at any time, you can do anything you want. Doesn't matter how old you are, you can figure it out. showing that when I was like my mid 40s was fun for me to kind of...

Jamey Maniscalco (59:24.516)
Yeah.

Marcy Stoudt (59:30.063)
plant that seed for them.

Jamey Maniscalco (59:32.058)
I love that moment. I love that story. And I think it represents a few different things. I think it represents not only that small feedback loop. You made that difficult in the moment decision to stop and say, I didn't act right there. I need to change.

But then what you ended up doing was when you did the behavior you thought was right, it didn't turn into this catastrophic, need you for three hours, mom. It immediately reinforced by having a wonderful moment with your daughter. And then she went on feeling good about herself. You still were able to get the thing done you needed to get done. And you fostered the relationship versus deteriorated it.

And the other thing that stands out to me is, you mentioned being in your 40s at this point for doing this, then to me this just highlights again that growth mindset is we don't have to be anybody we don't want to be. We get to choose our destiny from the day we're born to the day we die. And there's nothing real about I am who I am and there's no changing me. It's an intentional move. And I think...

you know, just to kind of plug you and the idea of coaching as well. Oftentimes we can do that faster with more efficacy if we have someone else helping us see more clearly and guide the way. And so to me, I think this is just a wonderful way to wrap up our conversation with this optimistic note of we can be whoever we want to be. And I guess the last question I'd have for you would be for someone who feels as though they're struggling.

to be a leader, whether they are or they're trying to become one. What's the one thing you would say to that listener right now?

Marcy Stoudt (01:01:15.982)
All right. You know what I'm going to say right now? Don't do it alone. Like find somebody that knows you.

Jamey Maniscalco (01:01:20.666)
Mm-hmm.

Marcy Stoudt (01:01:24.738)
kind of be really open with what your struggle is or who you want to be. You know, in the conversation we've been having is like, a lot of times that struggle and not being a great leader is like they don't really know who they want to be more often. But when you don't do it alone, you have somebody kind of reflect back on you and like get that better statement and then just have them hold you accountable to being that better person every day. So, so often, you you were saying this like you can be your future self as long as you stop being

Jamey Maniscalco (01:01:47.29)
Mm.

Marcy Stoudt (01:01:54.672)
your past self that you want to be. So just step into that new, you know, it's with actions, it's with thoughts, it's with belief, but I think keeping that to yourself is really the Achilles heel. So finding that great mentor, that friend, that coach, that somebody else that you can really develop, you know, your best vision statement and your best accountability living up to that person, I think that's what I'd leave the leaders, leave the listeners with.

Jamey Maniscalco (01:01:56.783)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (01:02:08.761)
Yeah.

Jamey Maniscalco (01:02:23.13)
Well, I love that. Thank you so much, Marcy. This has been such a pleasure speaking with you today, and I can't wait for what I hope to be many more conversations to come.

Marcy Stoudt (01:02:33.282)
Me too, I always love seeing you, so thank you, Jamie, I appreciate you having me.